The time to settle is now
Regular readers will find it odd that I recommend a piece by Jerry Gallucci, with whom I often disagree. But this time he has got it mostly right.
While buying a bit of Serb credit with stabs at the EU and US as “misguided” and even “dangerous” and Pristina as “maximalist,” Jerry goes on to reject what Belgrade is asking for in the negotiations over northern Kosovo. The Ahtisaari plan, he suggests, is adequate.
He’s right. Belgrade is the maximalist party in this negotiation, not Pristina, which has realized from the first that reintegration of northern Kosovo will require time and patience as well as improved relations with Belgrade.
Belgrade’s bottom line, as cited by Jerry, requires satisfaction on all these criteria for the Serb association of municipalities:
- whether it would have its own powers (or carry out those given to the municipalities), executive council and assets
- whether it would operate under the law of Kosovo
- whether it would have an elected or delegated assembly
- whether it would have the power to assign and confirm places of residence, determine electoral registers and the composition of a separate court
- whether its decisions would need to be approved by Pristina
- whether there would be a “mechanism” for Serb participation in central government bodies
- whether Kosovo security services would stay out of the north.
Meeting these requirements would not only create a separate Serbian “entity” (like Republika Srpska, the Serb entity within Bosnia) but would also in essence make that entity virtually independent and give it de facto power to block Kosovo’s entry into the European Union by ensuring it could not implement the acquis communitaire on the entity’s territory.
No one in Serbia would imagine that Belgrade could or would agree to such arrangements for the Albanian-majority communities of southern Serbia. There is no reason to expect Pristina to agree to them for Serbian-majority communities in northern Kosovo. Kudos to Jerry for recognizing that this is a road to nowhere.
And more kudos for recognizing, albeit obliquely (the headline writer did it more directly than in Jerry’s text), that the Ahtisaari plan is adequate for purposes of protecting vital Serb interests in northern Kosovo. The sooner Belgrade realizes that the negotiation with Pristina is about how the Ahtisaari plan is to be implemented, not about additional criteria that need to be met, the quicker it will see the EU and US plump for opening accession negotiations. Conditionality has brought the Belgrade/Pristina dialogue as far as it has come. And it will be vital to closing the deal, no matter how much Jerry (and Belgrade) don’t like it.
Given what is happening between the EU and Cyprus, whose banks have handled (shall I say laundered?) a lot of Serb funds over the past two decades, it would be a serious mistake for Belgrade to cause any further delay. The EU has somehow kept open the possibility of beginning accession negotiations with Serbia, despite Belgrade’s continued insistence on claiming sovereignty over all of Kosovo, growing enlargement fatigue and the euro crisis. There is a real possibility the door will slam shut after Croatia’s entry in July. The time to settle on the reintegration of northern Kosovo (and allow Kosovo to join the UN as well as other international bodies) is now.
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The excessive praise that Serbia received from Brussels and Washington for the constructive approach in the first few rounds of the dialogue between Dačić and Thaci has led the government in Belgrade to assume that the West will, in turn, later be willing to support whatever they demand for the North. Hence this unrealistic hope of turning the North into a new Republika Srpska.
I tried to read article by Gerard M. Gallucci. English is not my first language but while skimming through article I have not seen anywhere what Daniel Serwer is claiming “Jerry goes on to reject what Belgrade is asking for in the negotiations over northern Kosovo. The Ahtisaari plan, he suggests, is adequate.”
Actually what Jerry writes its opposite.
Jerry writes:
“The Ahtisaari Plan provides a sound basis for practical decentralization in Kosovo. Ensuring it works fully south of the Ibar should be a prime EU/US focus. But north of the Ibar, decentralization would need to be implemented in a way that reflects the different reality there. North Kosovo has never been under Pristina and still functions as part of Serbia. Seeking to change that through force – or by pushing Belgrade to withdraw its presence there – would either fail or lead to further ethnic conflict.”
And he also writes:
“Quint would be rightly concerned over a Serbian demand to give an association its own powers, funds and representation at central level. That would be a Republika Srpska. Asking for that would go needlessly beyond what the Ahtisaari Plan already provides and provoke Pristina and the Quint.”
I just don’t see that because of sentence he wrote “Quint would be rightly concerned” Jerry reject Belgrade proposal for the negotiations over northern Kosovo.
He says “Quint would be rightly concerned” because this is something that Quint did not plan in the first place and according to Jerry this proposal would provoke Pristina and the Quint.
Nor Jerry Gallucci endorses Ahtisaari’s plan for North Kosovo, at least not in his article.
A bit of creative ambiguity that allows everybody to claim they’ve won?
Don’t know but what Jerry wrote in his article is not how Daniel interpreted it. Jerry does not endorse Ahtisaari’s plan for North Kosovo in his article. I don’t know where Daniel got this idea? Constantly mentioning Albanian-majority communities of southern Serbia and that they should get the same as Serbs in Kosovo is just one attempt to destabilize region again. Presevo is under Serbian jurisdiction but North Kosovo is not under Kosovo Albanian jurisdiction and it will never be. The only way how Kosovo Albanians can impose their rule in North Kosovo is with help of KFOR, not any other way. That is reality and Daniel should stop winding up Presevo Albanians. Also, nobody guarantees that Kosovo will not unite with Albania. And I dont think that US will prevent that. Still remember words of Lord Robertson from 1999 during NATO bombing “We dont want Kosovo to be independent as it will unite with Albania. Turkey promised Albania millitary help”. Just wonder which one is bigger evil Great Albania or Great Serbia?
“Just wonder which one is bigger evil Great Albania or Great Serbia?”
Well, you might consider how many tens (hundreds?) of thousands have died in Serbia’s efforts to unite “all Serbs in one country” and comparable Albanian attempts.
As for guarantees that Kosovo will not unite with Albania, Ahtisaari gave away that interesting bargaining chip in his Plan and the Kosovo leaders agreed to it in their Declaration of Independence.
As Kosovo Albanians did not want to live in Serbia, same reciprocity applied to Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia. Currently, there is only one independent Serbian state in Balkans but there are two Albanian states. Western hypocrisy is endless.
Even some Serbs are getting on board – a delegation consisting of Oliver Ivanović and some of the Serbs who are involved in local government south of the Ibar and the parliament in Prishtina have been in Brussels recently (to meet with Jelko Kacin) to say that parts of the Ahtisaari plan are fine. RadioKim reported on it, and on the objections by the leaders of the northern towns, who castigated them for going outside of channels. If Ashton can’t convince Vucic to participate in future negotiations, we can expect to hear a lot “traitor!” talk in the future. Fortunately, she has every incentive not to allow exactly what the “patriots” are after, essentially a license to wreck Kosovo’s chances of success, perhaps even survival. After all, her name is going to be associated not only with the agreement, but the results it produces on the ground.
I appreciate Dan’s comments on my piece but let me be clear. I think the Ahtisaari Plan is a good BASIS for a possible settlement for north Kosovo. I also believe that Belgrade would go too far if it sought to make an association of municipalities into a corporate entity with its own elections, funding and role in central government. But I agree with Dan that the real question is “how the Ahtisaari plan is to be implemented.” That would need some important details to be settled, especially in defining the role – if any – that Pristina would have in local affairs in the north. I continue to believe the northern Kosovo Serbs will not agree to any direct role.
Mr.Gallucci may I ask you your feeling of a onetime swap of territories that do not want to live with the country the are currently part of ie N.kosovo and the presevo valley?i understand that this could be a distabilizing factor in the Balkans put being a descended from people who there territories were not exchanged but their populations and at the end everyone s better off believes this is the only true way of finding a solution in southern Serbia/Kosovo .
As I understand it, President Tadic was ready for a territory swap of that sort but the US refused to allow Pristina to consider it. If the parties agreed on such, why prevent them? Reality cannot simply be wished away.
Thanks for your reply I can understand it might give others ideas,but I believe this is the best solution
If you were to ask Serbs, south of Ibar, few years ago, about accepting Pristina as their capital, you would hear total disagreement from them. I often cite Serbian man from Rahovec (southern Kosovo) who said in studio of TVB92 (Serbian broadcaster) that he did not want going to seek for health services of Kosovo, for his sick wife, because in such way “he would recognize ‘fake state’ of Kosovo”. Now, such people, “realized” that hey were wrong. Some would say “they had to accept the reality”. That’s right.
But as for reality in the ground I would cite professor Vladimir Pavićević (faculty of political sciences, University of Belgrade) who said: “there is wrong parallelism of the ‘reality’ that Serbia doesn’t control Kosovo and that Kosovo doesn’t control the north. There is difference, however, that Belgrade CAN’T influence northern Kosovo in juridical, political and military aspects, and Kosovo as a whole, while Kosovo has juridical, political and security mechanisms to influence the north but is prevented using such mechanisms from the EU and other actors we are trying to find solution”.
Source of citing is here: http://www.b92.net/video/video.php?nav_category=907&nav_id=698379
We have seen those juridical, political and military aspects in practice in last 14 years and we know what they mean. No thank you, I stick with views expressed by Leon Koen (Cohen).
I think professor Pavicevic described perfectly Leon Koen as a person believing in fictitious things. That is perfectly right. As you believe in fictitious things I would appreciate if you tell us how Kosovo issue would go to UN as Koen wants? I mean, who can force Albanians to talk again with Serbia about status?? UN Security Council or who??
Secondly if one believes that Kosovo authorities can’t remove barricades and illegal structures from northern Kosovo indeed lives in illusions. Take for example barricade in Mitrovica bridge. Kosovo authorities can remove that barricade for just 2 hours and nothing more. Its better option, however, doing that in peace and through dialogue. The last solution is what Serbia did in Presevo valley or modified action “storm 2.0” like Croatian forces on 1995 in Croatia.
Just to remember that in northern Kosovo live some 40K of Serbian inhabitants, which is population of medium municipality in Kosovo i.e small town Suhareka.
First of all Albanians and Serbs never talked about Kosovo status. It was more like farce directed by international community as the outcome of the talks was known in advance.
I did not watch the whole program, but however Leon Cohen’s views are well known to me. He was involved in Kosovo talks, but withdraw after he realized what was all about. Also he did not get along with Vuk Jeremic, even though their views about Kosovo are not different.
In Presevo, Serbia removed illegally built monument to members of terrorist organization. Just imagine what would be US reaction if someone on American soil builds a monument to those dead terrorists responsible for 9/11?
You can impose Albanian rule in North Kosovo by force as you suggest (more like a threat than suggestion to me) but don’t be sure that you will succeed. Time will tell.
And next time when you write your comments here, please don’t threaten use of force. If you can not engage in democratic discussion, please don’t comment at all.
There is no threat at all. I mentioned behavior of Serbia on year 2000 while intervening militarily against Albanians in Presevo, Bujanovac and Medvejdja. Why Serbia is allowed to use force and Kosovo not???!!! I am not saying that Kosovo will use force against Serbian civilians in the north. I am saying that if Serbia is not going to withdraw illegal structures from the north then Kosovo has to do it in the language they understand. So Kosovo must act as EVERY STATE in the world while being under aggression of another state. The north of Kosovo IS the north of Kosovo and will remain as such with all rights provided by Ahtisaari plan. If almost 100K of Albanians in southern Serbia had to accept ruling form Belgrade (although they fought against it) the same must happen with 40K of Kosovo Serbs in northern Kosovo who have to accept ruling from Pristina. In this regard just to remind that Serbs in Kosovo have much better offer than Albanians in southern Serbia, who don’t have anything. This kind of approach just rises tensions and some want even more!!! This is just unjustifiable.
Nevertheless I repeat again the question: If Koen, and others like him, want discussing Kosovo issue at UN, HOW can it be achieved???
Micha Amarelo, not only that you believe in some realities that are not attainable in any degree but the realities you are living in are bad for the Serbian’s interests. Interests are things attainable in reality and in time. There are those among Serbs who think that prolonging this issue (waiting for the second coming or whatever) would deteriorate situation and not in a good way for Serbs. Wake up from your dream world and taste reality however unpleasant it might be.
I think there are Serbs understanding reality. Take for example Latinka Perovic who says that “Serbs will disappear because of not understanding the time we live”. This is a call for other Serbs to understand that time is against Serbs. Serbia is fighting hard for 40K of Serbs in northern Kosovo but at the same time Serbia is short in population so southern Serbia is almost empty space. Of course that empty space must be filled from somebody and that tells us in what kind of delusions live those in Serbia waiting for “better time” while time is their biggest enemy..
Just read your post again and you will see that you are making threat again. There is difference between Serbs in North and those Albanians who were members of UCPMB (terrorist organization). You suggest (actually again make threat) that Serbs in North Kosovo should be dealt in similar manner as Serbian police dealt with terrorist organization (UCPMB)? No wonder why Serbs in North Kosovo will never trust you. It seems you are very brave when you have KFOR behind you.
Albanians had much better rights in Former Yugoslavia than Serbs and Montenegrins in Albania. I was in army with Kosovo Albanians(FK and SS) whose fathers had very high positions in Communist party. They were much more privileged in Army than others including Serbs. That was never case in Albania, they even changed their Serbian names and surnames to look Albanian and they prohibit them to speak Serbian language. That was continued after Enver Hoxha died and it is still the same situation under Sali Berisha.
I have not watched whole program so I don’t know exactly what Leon Cohen said. Negotiations between Serbs and Albanians never happened as scenario for Kosovo independence was already written. Albanians would not accept anything as they were instructed by US.
You treat UCPMB as “terrorist” organization while its not the case with Albanians there. There are some Serbian terrorist in northern Kosovo who killed 11 Albanians there, expelled more than 10K of Albanians from the north, almost everyday terrorize Albanians there, wounded and killed many international police and soldiers.
Nevertheless I am writing here for the APPROACH one might have. Presevo, Bujanovc and Medvedja are just three municipalities in southern Serbia, don’t want ruling from Belgrade. There are JUST three municipalities in northern Kosovo and Serbs there are the last group in the planet to deserve something as THEY caused suffering to the others and NOT somebody to them. Regardless of this fact, Kosovo leaders accepted Ahtsaari plan giving for Serbs rights never seen in planet Earth for such small group.
So if Albanians in southern Serbia had to accept ruling from Belgrade, the same must happen with Serbs in northern Kosovo so they have to accept ruling from Pristina. There is NO other solution.
Its ridiculous speaking for more than 2 million (probably up to 2,5 million) of Albanians in former Yugoslavia (as third ethnic group in former Yugoslavia) with few Serbs in Albania. So Albanians in former Yugoslavia were bigger group than Slovenians, Bosniaks, Montenegrins and Macedonians. Everybody finds it ridiculous when hears that 2,5 million of Albanians in former Yugoslavia had been treated as “minority” while FIVE TIMES less or just half million of Montenegrins were “majority”!!!
As for Leon Cohen, he asked end of actual negotiating process and sending the issue to UN, which is his delusion as well as that of DDS (Kostunica’s party in Serbia).
As for negotiations between Kosovo leaders and Serbian ones, forget US and EU but do you believe any other outcomes than that of independence of Kosovo??
We are not negotiating here about Presevo which is part of Serbia (UN recognized country). We are negotiating about Kosovo which is self proclaimed territory. Those are two basic differences.
International community acknowledge that Presevo is internal affair of Serbia and it should not be included in any negotiations.
But what are you trying to suggest here, is just invitation for war. We all know what was the operation Storm in Croatia and what was the outcome of that. By suggesting something like that, you will never get trust of Kosovo Serbs and no wonder they don’t want to live under Albanian rule. As I said before it is easy to make threats when NATO is on your side.
Those Serbs in North Kosovo are not ambushing Albanian policemen and not planting mines like what UCPMB did in 2000. Those are the differences.
BTW, 14 Serbs were killed in Staro Gacko (collecting harvest), perpetrators never found?
Regarding negotiations about Kosovo, the outcome would have been different if you did not have those big guys on your side. The only solution is partition of Kosovo.
Danijel Kecman, it seems that our realities are different. You can not take everything from one side and give everything to the other.
Doris Pack said few days ago that Serbia and Kosovo should join EU in the same time. Can you understand that Germany does not want Serbia and Kosovo in EU, whatever conditions are fulfilled it will be always new ones?
Neither Americans like Albanians, they just want someone who will go and fight for them and if possible get their natural resources. Another goal is to reduce Russian influence on Balkans in which they have succeeded.
Just remember when I was a kid I used to support US in every sport. But not anymore.
“Neither Americans like Albanians, they just want someone who will go and fight for them and if possible get their natural resources. Another goal is to reduce Russian influence on Balkans in which they have succeeded.”
The idea that Americans dislike Albanians seems to be popular among some Serbs, however – B92 posters used to deny that anyone with the nick “Amer” could actually be one, and for years the censors helpfully trashed any replies to the contrary. As for natural resources – it’s a lot cheaper just to go in and bargain with whomever is in power, there’s no need to wage a war (or even a brief air campaign). In any case, Kosovo’s best known natural resource is lignite, which even the Kosovars don’t want to use. Not to mention that the U.S. itself is the Saudi Arabia of coal.
The business about getting soldiers for future wars is another favorite among B92 readers, who commonly refer to the members in the non-U.S. forces in Afghanistan as ‘cannon fodder.’ This is another of their censors’ sensitive topics that is protected from opposing views. For example, information on the proportions of fighting and dying done by the U.S. and everybody else (the Brits, Canadians, Danes – I think – help carry the load, although an Albanian soldier was killed by an inside attacker, and they have helped by building the schools that may end up being more important than the firefights.
It’s Serbia’s recent actions under Milosevic that are responsible for whatever animus the Americans may feel against Serbs, but even that is fading in the popular mind. For example, the Law & Order series for a time during and after the wars in Yugoslavia presented stories based on the events there, and the Serbs did not come out looking good. But a couple of years ago there was a Serb immigrant in California who assembled such a large supply of explosives in a house that the place had to be destroyed because it was too dangerous to try to remove the booby-trapped munitions. The story served as at least a sub-plot for a show – but the collector was not made a Serb, just some Anglo loser, I think (my memory on this is not good, but I did note they avoided the Serbian angle entirely.) The writers apparently assume that Americans have forgotten the entire matter, and references to the former Yugoslavia would only confuse them.
Oh, and the Russians – why couldn’t we have supported Milosevic and his efforts to bring all Serbs within the boundaries of a single state as a way of preventing them from gaining a foothold in the Balkans? As we had cooperated with Tito over the years, against the Soviets. Mostly what the U.S. government wanted was to be able to forget the Balkans and leave it to the Europeans to worry about. If there was any bias, of course, it was in the Serbs’ favor, since many in the U.S. diplomatic service had long ago spent time as grad students in friendly Yugoslavia, while for obvious reasons there was nobody around with similar golden-hued memories of Hoxha’s Albania.
During the Kosovo war Clinton administration came up with idea to house Albanian refugees in Guantanamo Bay. In that way they would prevent them from applying for US residency.
You can extract oil from coal but it is very dirty process. Why do it in US when you can do it in Kosovo?
Russian influence has weakened in the region and that was one of the goals of American administration. Anti American sentiment is even higher in Greece than in Serbia.
You are mixing things. When an entity becomes independent, it takes EVERYTHING. When Slovenia and Croatia got independent, they got everything and UN member SFRY (from which Slovenia and Croatia seceded) LOST everything in that part.
This is nothing unusual.
When the Haitians won their independence from France, France imposed an indemnity that essentially ruined the country. (That was when they cut down their magnificent forests, to get money to pay France.) It seemed safe for France to take financial vengeance on their ex-slaves on the other side of the Atlantic, but would make no sense for Serbia to try to ruin its next-door neighbor by demanding payment for everything of value in the country.
One thing they might consider is packing up the religious buildings and moving them to Serbia. If the London Bridge could be moved to somewhere in the American Southwest, it shouldn’t be impossible to dismantle those churches, which are compact and in need of periodic redoing of the murals, in any case. (The Albanians in their white caps disappeared in one such re-do.) Having a church to serve as a tourist destination might even help to revive some of those depopulated Serbian villages. Maybe the Russians would cover the expenses involved?
What you suggest is really sick minded proposal. Same if you would suggest that Western Wall is moved out of Jerusalim.
Kosovo did not have same status as Slovenia and Croatia in SFRJ. Otherwise Albanians would not protest in early 80’s asking to get status of Republic. You don’t remember those protests?
Kosovo had been CONSTITUTIVE part of SFRY, as Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, B&H, Macedonia and Montenegro plus Vojvodina. Kosovo had THE SAME institutions and right as above mentioned entities. Kosovo had VETO POWER so if, for example, Slovenia or Croatia wanted to secede from UN member SFRY they had to get CONSENT from all other entities INCLUDING Kosovo. So I don’t see any arguments from you in this regard.
“Danijel Kecman, it seems that our realities are different. You can not take everything from one side and give everything to the other.” – let me tell you something that might be a news to you. Azem Vlasi before all the nonsense started used to lead demonstration of Albanian people on Kosovo chanting “We are Jugoslav as well and Yugoslavia is our country too” fighting for the same treatment/status of Albanian people in Yugoslavia. Only normal thing to do and by neglecting it for the other strategic goals Milosevic had at the time situation deteriorated and as a result we have independent Kosovo and that is because we lost those people by treating them as second order citizens (let me repeat it here Kosovo is independent country and that is reality). Many Serbs were led into war believing that they are fighting for Yugoslavia were in fact they fighting for an internal deal between Milosevic and Tudjman or in other words for territories and butchering of Yugoslavia. At the time USA was offering $4 billions to YU if they were stay together – Slovenia asked for reduction in military spending and for the money to be put for better use and was let go by Milosevic – after Milosevic let go Slovenia from Yugoslavia by not accepting any deal (on the table there was an offer for confederation) everything was clear to anyone who was thinking clearly and not warmongering. The fact that Milosevic very soon found out that Russia is not for such an arrangement (that he will not get support for division of Bosnia which is the thing he and Tudjman together asked for support in Moscow). After that he funded SNSD to counter SDS and Karadzic (at that time Dodik was sane) and to move Bosnian Serbs led by another insane person who were against any peace negotiations. During all the war in Bosnia Serb forces were using aviation against Bosniaks and it took Nato to give to Serbs (I was there) their own medicine for that crazy people to come down to the ground (they were angry at NATO because they bomb Serb military where Serb aviation was doing that to the other side all the war). I am Serb but was always thinking this way. That said my philosophy had always been and will always be one of land and life and where I am a minority in such a philosophy I cannot agree with the other one which is of blood and borders. Not only because it resembles something we Serbs were fighting against in WWII but because whole the world has moved in different direction moving away from that national romanticism of syphilis infected French revolutionaries (also known as counterpart to civilisation or on one word Syphilisation). In that sense modern nationalism of which Nazism is just a natural development is a product of lack of penicillin in 19 century. What we can do is turn back, be ashamed of ourselves (not because of others or not only because of that but because because of what we would like our kids to be as men) and say to each other: we fucked up buddy. Let us see were we fucked up. And let me tell you right away – when we neglected demands from Albanian people for having Albanian language university in Pristina, by not accepting them as equal citizens and equal nation in Yugoslavia, by going to war for territories, and at the end by going to war in the first place. So buddy we are to do much mea culpa before we have any right in front of ourselves to speak about poetic justice. And now listen to the way of your ‘reality’. This is reality you will get: we will not join EU, we will get into hard dispute with Montenegro which is to open embassy in Pristina by the end of the year, we will weaken our position further, not only that Albanians will ask for the same in Kosovo but other countries will worry for their own citizens ask for special status for Hungarian, Rumanian (why not we had done that for Serbs in Bosnia and if it were not for madman Karadzic Croatia would have same for Republic of Srpska in Croatia (Z4)). On what ground would we have rights to deny Hungarians in Vojvodina/Serbia some form of Republic of Hungarians? We complain about unfairness against us but we were (with Croatians) those who were dealing unfairness to others for two decades now. If you do not get smart, and continue to neglect life for borders you will not have people to fill the land with. But others will.
Danijel Kecman, I don’t where you coming from, but we fought against Milosevich in March 1991 very heavily. We tried to overthrown him many times, we did not succeed. Nobody wanted to help Serbian opposition until 2000 (after Kosovo was occupied) to overthrown Milosevic and their excuse was ” we don’t want to overthrown democratically elected president”. Both US and Kosovo Albanians saw a chance in having Milosevich on power to start a war in Kosovo and occupy Kosovo which would lead to Kosovo independence. There is documentary film “MORAL COMBAT : NATO AT WAR”. DUGI GORANI
KOSOVO ALBANIAN NEGOTIATOR said
“The more civilians were killed, the chances of international intervention became bigger, and
the KLA of course realised that. There was this foreign diplomat who once told me ‘Look
unless you pass the quota of five thousand deaths you’ll never have anybody permanently
present in Kosovo from the foreign diplomacy”. “With Racak, and with lots of others, the Serbs were playing into KLA hands. It will remain I
would say an eternal dilemma whether the KLA initiated these battles in the civilian inhabited
areas because it knew that the Serbs will retaliate on them. Personally I don’t think so, but of
course, it was a war.”
@Micha Amarelo,
We are not negotiating for northern Kosovo as well. Northern Kosovo IS northern Kosovo and will remain as a such. To the best of my knowledge UN DOESN’T recognize countries but either admits them or not. In the official site of UN you may read “The recognition of a new State or Government is an act that only other States and Governments may grant or withhold. It generally implies readiness to assume diplomatic relations. The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not possess any authority to recognize either a State or a Government. As an organization of independent States, it may admit a new State to its membership or accept the credentials of the representatives of a new Government.”
Kosovo, for sure, fulfills ALL elements of being STATE. Presevo is internal affair of Serbia as northern Kosovo is internal affair of Kosovo as well. This a clear parallel. It doesn’t mean, however, that we are not going to have some discussions related to Presevo valley as Mr. Serwer suggests.
Nobody is calling for war here. There are just 40K of inhabitants in northern Kosovo with probably just 25K adults, half of them women and many others as old people. Such a small group can’t be a threat to Kosovo authorities in Kosovo of almost 2 million inhabitants. There will be, of course, withdrawal of security forces of Serbia being present there. If that happens through agreement of both parties, that would be nice. If not then such forces must be expelled from Kosovo in the language they understand and the way every state does. So this is not a threat to local population in the north but just warning for illegal presence of some people there.
It is true that 14 Serbs were killed in Staro Gracko but probably you know that Staro Gracko is in mid Kosovo and far from northern Kosovo. You gave me an argument and asking you: why then Serbia is asking more autonomy for Serbs in the north of Kosovo while those in the north were in much better situation then those in the south? There is no logic here and if there is no logic then everybody can see that Belgrade doesn’t care at all for people but for territory or trying to make Kosovo dysfunctional. Such attempt will fail for sure.
Lastly, again forget US or EU. The question was very clear: what would be outcome of negotiating process if it were totally as dialogue between Pristina and Belgrade, without interference from outside??
You are not member of UN. You can not be fully functional state as long as you are not member of UN. You need membership of UN in order to be accepted to other organizations.
So you are going to expel those “Serbian security forces” without help of KFOR (NATO)?
Fadil what you are asking is hypothetical question, as this will never happen (nor it happened). I can not answer hypothetical questions as answers to them are not relevant.
@Micha Amarelo,
Could you please cite any relevant documents supporting your claim that UN membership is a condition for “fully functional state”. I would appreciate that.
Expelling of illegal security forces of Serbia in Kosovo (in violation of UN SC 1244) must be done primarily by KFOR (paragraph 9 of R 1244). Of course, if KFOR is not willing to fillfil its mandate by Security Council then its a duty of Kosovo authorities to do that. Personally I would prefer peaceful solution so Serbia should withdraw its illegal security personnel in Kosovo.
As for outcome of negotiating process of Kosovo with Serbia just ask yourself why NOBODY wanted to be in the same state with Serbia even Slavic people such as Slovenians, Croats, Bosniaks, Macedonians, and lastly brother people Montengrins. Serbs speak the same language as Montenegrins and almost the same as Croats but none of them wanted to be in one state with Serbia.
And you are asking from Albanians from totally different origin, roots, culture and history to be in one state with Serbia!!!!
Fadil wrote: “And you are asking from Albanians from totally different origin, roots, culture and history to be in one state with Serbia!!!!”
Fadil I proposed partition of Kosovo in one of my previous comments.
And you are asking Serbs from totally different origin, roots, culture and history to be in the same state with Albanians?
Fadil_H says on April 1, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Kosovo had been CONSTITUTIVE part of SFRY, as Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, B&H, Macedonia and Montenegro plus Vojvodina. Kosovo had THE SAME institutions and right as above mentioned entities. Kosovo had VETO POWER so if, for example, Slovenia or Croatia wanted to secede from UN member SFRY they had to get CONSENT from all other entities INCLUDING Kosovo. So I don’t see any arguments from you in this regard.
Fadil, Kosovo did not have the same status as other republics nor Albanians were constitutional nation. They were ethnic minority due to the fact that Albania was their parent state. Same applied to Hungarians. Serbs in Bosnia and Croatia had status of nation as they were constitutional nation in SFRJ.
According to the 1974 SFRJ constitution, the SFRJ was made as a federation of six republics. These republics had the right to secede from the SFRJ. However, under SFRJ constitution, any territory of a republic, that is the autonomous province (Kosovo), can not be changed without the consent of that republic (Serbia).
SFRJ constitution parts relevant to this:
“Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia comprises the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Socialist Republic of Macedonia, Socialist Republic of Slovenia, the Socialist Republic of Serbia and the Socialist Autonomous Province of Vojvodina and the Socialist Autonomous Province of Kosovo, which are part of the Socialist Republic of Serbia, Socialist Republic of Croatia and the Socialist Republic of Montenegro”
“The territory of the republic can not be changed without the consent of the republic”.
Kosovo Albanians realized that and therefore they wanted autonomous province status upgraded to republic. Demonstration started seven years after SFRJ constitution was finalized and less than one year since Tito died. The main demand was that Kosovo become republic.
Right for self-determination was only given to constitutional nations (to their own republic where they were majority), not to ethnic minorities nor autonomous provinces.
@Micha Amarelo,
If you read carefully your statements you would see how contradictory you are with yourself. You say that Kosovo “was not” federal element while quoting Yugoslav Constitution you say the opposite i.e that SFRY (socialist Yugoslava) WAS COMPRISED of Kosovo as well.
Nevertheless you didn’t read properly the Constitution of 1974. Neither republics nor provinces had right to secede unless having CONSENT (article 5 of Constitution) of ALL republic AND autonomous provinces (Kosovo of course). To the best of my knowledge none of Assemblies of SFRY constituents gave consent for seceding of any of entities of SFRY. Actually, in its preamble,Yugoslav Constitution of 1974 recognized right of peoples (NOT that of Republics) to self-determination up to secession. But this was nothing as operative part of Constitution practically limited exercising of such right by the will of other entities, six republics and two autonomous provinces (Kosovo and Vojvodina). So how come that Kosovo was not federal element while having VETO POWER in such crucial thing as giving CONSENT for secession of other entities???!!!
If Kosovo was not federal element why then presidency of Yugoslavia was comprised of EIGHT (NOT SIX) members who became presidents by rotational principle and once president of Yugoslavia was from Kosovo??
If Kosovo was not federal element why Yugoslav Assembly was comprised from EIGHT (not six) delegations even having VETO POWER? And many such things??
There is not a single clause in international law saying that republics, provinces, regions, towns can secede. Absolutely not.
As for consent just to mention that Serbia could not CHANGE even its own Constitution without CONSENT of Kosovo and, of course, Constitution of Kosovo. Serbia did it by force being in breach of Yugoslav Constitution, its own Constitution and Kosovo Constitution, hence Serbia’s presence in Kosovo was ILLEGAL since 1990.
As for being “national minority” indeed such statement is contrary to every healthy logic. According to your logic then Romanians in Moldova are “national minority” so Moldova is governed from “minority” people. Then one could say that Germans, French and Italians in Switzerland are minorities or Chinese people (some 80%) in Singapore are minority and many such cases.
As I said occasionally it was very strange and UNFAIR treating almost 2.5 million Albanians in SFRY as “minority” and half million Montenegrins or million of Macedonians as “majority”. That was UNJUST and UNFAIR treatment that had to be fixed and fortunately that UNJUST treatment was FIXED.
Fadil wrote “You say that Kosovo “was not” federal element while quoting Yugoslav Constitution you say the opposite i.e that SFRY (socialist Yugoslava) WAS COMPRISED of Kosovo as well.”
Please Fadil, where did I write that “Kosovo was not federal element”? Let me quote myself “Kosovo did not have same status as Slovenia and Croatia in SFRJ”. Which is true as Kosovo was autonomous province (and part of republic of Serbia) while Slovenia and Croatia were separate republics.
I am not talking about Swiss or any other state, I am talking about SFRJ and constitution of 1974. Constitution was written by Tito and Kardelj and you should have lodged your protest with them. Kosovo Albanians were not constitutional nation in SFRJ nor Kosovo was republic. Therefore, as Kosovo Albanians were not constitutional nation, their request to secede could not be even considered as the constitution would not allowed it anyway. However, if Croatia (and Croatians) wanted to secede, constitution would allow it assuming that other republics (and autonomous provinces, including Kosovo) did not veto it.
Lets stick to the facts and don’t try to write something I did not write here. I can not answer hypothetical questions.
@Micha Amarelo,
You said: “According to the 1974 SFRJ constitution, the SFRJ was made as a federation of six republics.”, which is part of truth since you forgot adding “as well as two autonomous provinces”. Its true that Bosnikas (Muslims on that time), Serbs and Croats were constitutive nation within B&H. That’s fine. According to preamble of YU Constitution peoples (nations) had right to secede so why those nations did not secede from B&H first and from YU latter?? They couldn’t because such clause in preamble of YU Constitution was just an empty phrase. What did matter was CONSENT of republics and autonomous provinces if anyone wanted to secede. That did not happen so none of YU constituents seceded according to YU Constitution hence violated it. But such secessionist movement of YU entities did not violate international law as international law doesn’t deal with internal matters of states in regard to secession.
Just to remember also that first entity that VIOLATED YU Constitution was Serbia changing ILLEGALLY constitutional position of Kosovo within YU federation.
As this matter is too complex, according to many scholars, I would mention James Crawford as most known, secession is not regulated by international law since international law doesn’t permit explicitly nor denies secession hence its neutral in this regard. According to professor Crawford, international law has an institution for entity claiming of being state and that is recognition.
Fadil wrote ” Its true that Bosnikas (Muslims on that time), Serbs and Croats were constitutive nation within B&H. That’s fine. According to preamble of YU Constitution peoples (nations) had right to secede so why those nations did not secede from B&H first and from YU latter??
Why would Muslims, Serbs and Croat want to secede from Bosnia which was part of SFRJ in that time? Another hypothetical question.
I was reading your comments from other websites and I can see that you are blinded by hatred. Engaging in any type of conversation (even written one) with you is waste of time.